ComPPG - something fishy - an Open Letter to Paul


#1

Hi Paul
you have done a great job in developping something new, and you probably already spent tons of money and tons of your personal time, to develop the OpenPPG.
It is obvious that this project is “alive” and fully legitimate, as your youtube videos show.

However something does not seem right:

1) ComPPG versus OpenPPG

2) Five Kits sold

So let me get right to it:

1) ComPPG versus OpenPPG
For a couple of months now and numerous times, people have asked on the youtube channel and in the community forum ( Open Source Release? ) for the files to be released, since you “advertise” this project as OpenSource - The fact that you named this “open source” is probably one of the reasons why it is so popular.

But nothing is open source, yet, for months!

It’s okay, if you want this project to be commercial and sell kits and parts. It’s your money, time, ideas and enthusiam that you devoted to this project. It’s your Baby!
But then don’t advertise it as OpenSource - it wouldn’t be OpenPPG, it would be Com(mercial)PPG!

So please, either release the files, or be honest and say that you (changed your mind and) don’t want to release the files (anymore)!

B) Five Kits sold

You said the first kits will be available on march 29th. I did watch closely and at no point during that day the kit was available for purchase, at any given point, the status was “out of stock”.
You said there were only 5 kits available, and they sold out fast.

Okayy??

So how fast were they sold out, in a matter of minutes? I doubt that. And who purchased them? A question to the community remained unanswered:


and

The community is pretty active, and one would say that anyone from this community, who managed to buy one of the first five kits, would be more than happy, and proud, to confirm that he/she is one of the first five. And two weeks after the kits were sold, the new owners should have already received them, or not?

Yet, mysteriously nobody raised their hand.

Just a Marketing Trick?

So, was this just a marketing trick? Were you about to miss the target release date, and decided you would just pretend to have sold out, to not have to admit you missed the date? Only to sell a so called batch 2 kit with full advance payment? I am not saying this is a fact, I am just raising concerns here.


#2

Well I’ll let Paul ultimately respond here, but I can tell you that Paul has been open to share files with those of us working on the project. Rather than prematurely releasing files and having a bunch of people build an incomplete design (and then wasting time, money and complaining) they are making sure it’s ready to ship. I can tell you from many years of product development experience, there is nothing worse than shipping a design before it’s ready.

Also, remember parts are being ordered from vendors overseas, which takes time and typically require prepayment. The first batch was obviously small, because no one wants to invest in lots of inventory without knowing who’s going to buy. And pre-pay makes sense, because vendors expect the same.

Hope that helps allay your fears.


#3

Wow…that is a lot of supposition…why not chill and enjoy the ride-----

because nothing you said is going to change how fast they are available or when he decides to use the opensource— just throwing shade

There is always the possibility that you could go elsewhere… that is an option…


#4

My two cents, if I may…
It is not my place to provide answers, proof, etc for or against this project that Paul has put together. We are all here for different reasons, with interest or experience, or both, and I am glad communities like this are possible.

With that being said, I don’t think it is unfair to ask if someone has doubt or questions about a project. My one example, (sorry I picked a political one) is when people follow a political issue believing only what they are told, and never question it. If it is something someone is involved in, and supports, I advise them to look into it, ask questions, and come to their own conclusions before blindly following whatever they’ve been told. If it is as it seems, we should never ve told to follow along because someone said so, but dont ask why… if that makes sense.

As a few of you will have missed, Stefan at the beginning did give credit to Paul for the progress of the project, and what has happened so far. But if there is a question, and living in the age of failed/questionable kickstarter projects/ go fund me’s, I don’t find it unreasonable to bring up a few questions, without being deemed a traitor or excessive backlash… again within a reasonable amount.

I am sorry this was so long, and still doesn’t answer questions either way, but I just wanted to remind everybody of the unique situation we’re in, and hopefully the future benefits of this community. I as well look forward to an update from Paul, talk to you guys later!


#5

Ya a lot of people/people wanting to invest (which I have turned down) have similar questions about the commercial vs open source premises of the project. It’s a common question and as I kinda explain in the few videos after showing off the project initially and people wanting to make there own but not having the time or tools to do so. That’s why the kits are available and if I gave the parts away I wouldn’t be able to give it away for very long as I would be broke. That why I have to charge for cost for parts. I hope that answers the commercial/open source question.

And for open-source validity of the project it’s hard to answer every question and address every want desire and concern while building, manufacturing and designing the project. It would be a lot easier to just not create a whole open source forum for all people to comment on the project like yourself @stefan. If my goal was to not have it as an open source project it would be easier to just not build a forum or even just remove this topic and delete you as a user. As you see your comment and topic are still here and that should add to the validity of the premises of OpenPPG.

For the two individuals that order the 5 kits (one order 3 and the other ordeing 2) I don’t think that it would be right of me to call out there identitys if they don’t want to be. I also did notice that most people that got kits we’re not hanging out on the forum.

Again I’ve been very busy and I’m trying to answer as many questions as I can while balancing getting kits ready for those who have ordered. Since you ask for the files I hurried up and built the full platform and page on the site to share the files, heres the link to download load them instantly. https://tinyurl.com/dymbb3a

But seriously though, shoot me a PM with what parts you want the files to and I’ll get you the file as soon as possible.


#6

I ordered 2 machines in the 2nd batch, and Paul has spent an enormous amount of time answering questions for me by email and by phone. I was one of the people actively interested in investing, and I have zero reason to suspect he’s doing anything other than his best work to launch a challenging, potentially industry changing undertaking.


#7

I trust Paul (obviously, because I plan on flying the aircraft he’s designed), but I think the skepticism is pretty cool. Questioning things you want to believe in isn’t easy for a lot of people.


#8

I hope that Paul and co are making some money from this so they can continue to refine and support the product long term.
To pull off a project like this requires risk and trust on both ends. We’re all sending significant amounts of money all over the world in the hope that a machine turns up in the post.
Perhaps a progress update (to those with skin in the game) would calm some nerves.


#9

Hello Paul, and others taking part in the discusson,

As DailyShorts thankfully has pointed out, I simply asked two questions (with some background) and I did show Respect to the work of Paul!

Now to the comments/answers:

A) Open Source versus Commercial

I don’t think it’s very funny posting a link to a Rick Astley Song on youtube and misleading me (and others) that the link would lead to the files.

I did NOT insult you Paul, I did not request to receive anything for free, not files, not actual parts. I just said that If you call this OpenSource,
then you should at some point down the road follow suit to all those that have asked for the files to be released.

This can be a simple Zip File for download - No need to spend precious time to code a filesharing platform first!

And since you have ordered many parts already, we can assume that the files are clean and available,
no risk of getting confused over the different versions @davek79 (and even if, that’s my problem, not yours).

I even agreed that Paul SHOULD make money of this, since it’s his idea, his money and time (building the prototypes)!

Now Paul, you are suggesting that I can ask you directly for the files by email - I believe @ etienne has done so,
@paul_oz as well.

Did they receive the files? @davek79, did you actually receive the files?

All I am saying is: If you say it’s Open Source, then keep the promise that you had made yourself.
If you changed your mind, no problem, just tell us and most of us will be surely accept it!

Another Idea: You sell kits now and may be selling parts soon as well.
Why not also sell the 3D files and a build manual, provided that you don’t want to publish the files anymore?

B) Five Kits sold

I did not ask Paul to share names of his customers (this would be breach of trust to his customers),
I just raised the question whether really 5 people bought 5 kits in virtually no time.
Paul, you answered this, that two people bought the whole 5 kits, I can live with that answer, if these
two people really want to stay anonymous.
Maybe you want to ask them to chime in here?

I think I am being absolutely reasonable here.

Respectfully,
Stefan


#10

Yes. I received the CAD files. Also have the throttle software. Can’t confirm if they have been updated since, but I received them pre-Batch 1


#11

Great idea - I for one dont mind paying for something Paul created - however, once others start contributing to this OS project and ideas are adopted and things change and those plans are shared - that gets a little more tricky. Who then gets the credit/money.

I am not a very creative person but good a following plans - I can change and adapt plans on the fly to meet my building skills but generally need plans to follow. So basically I am saying I wont have alot of skin invested in this OS development - just a benefactor of the great minds that make contributions to it - I would want those folks to be compensated as well.

Thus - in my mind, it cant be both ways – it is either OpenSource or not.

Cheers to all, Patrick


#12

Ya I’m not a big fan of selling files, I think the files should be free.


#13

@Pdwhite that’s awesome, but when may I expect your email?

I don’t want to beg :slight_smile: but I’d really like to get going, since the flying wheather is already here.

When will you have the option to buy parts, too (motors, props, throttle, controller) ?


#14

Hopefully tonight, I’ve been out of town the last few days, but I’m heading to the airport now and should be back this afternoon.


#15

Can’t github be used for open hardware projects? I’ve seen a few out there, hosting schematics, CAD files, etc. I believe it would allow version history, etc.


#16

We do have the controller software up on there now https://github.com/openppg, I just want to keep I as organized as possible.


#17

Of course it’s ok to ask questions:

  1. Did anyone else find @stefan’s posts paranoid, rude and unfocused?
    B) How can we be sure he even is who he claims to be?
    C) Maybe he’s trying to get an early copy of the files to commercialize his own version?
    $) Stefan can you quickly prove unequivocally that YOU not trying to BUILD your own rival website!?

Just asking questions.


#18

I for one have to come out - I had planned to get as much as possible from this site and sell it to the Russians - the only reason I am telling this now is because they backed out of the deal and I want to expose the whole Russian electric PPG black market!
LMAO, Patrick.


#19

Hi all, sorry to step in but all this dialog is out of the reason, in my opinion.In my country we have a saying " Roma e Pavia não se fizeram num dia" wich means that every thing takes it’s time to be done .
So let´s give the time some time .
Keep up with the good work Pdwhite


#20

Good on ya mate
Cheers