New 4.8kwh battery flight time

anyone have flight time on the new 4.8kwh battery?

Paul mentions that is at least 80 minutes.

The new battery is not released yet so it is just me testing it and on average I get about 25-30% longer flight times, so with and efficient wing like the Viper 6 I have been flying I do get around and hour and 20min flight time. But again, it depends on the wing type/design and your flying style, so if you already have benchmark with the 3.7kWh battery then you can just add the 25-30% more time with the 4.7kWh.

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Pd, what are the specs on the new battery? Cell count, Cell type, and peak discharge?

Don’t tell him Paul, we want to save some surprises for the official announcement! :stuck_out_tongue:

Mayb its 24s12p with molys 45? Just a wild guess =)

It’s a 24s1p pack, so it uses NMC pouch cells. No solid state or anything like that. It has a similar pack discharge rate needed for paramotor takeoffs, but the cells’ C rating is a bit less. However, because the pack capacity is higher, it still provides the needed discharge rate. Also, with the redesigned case and potting material, it has better passive cooling than the old pack design. So, at the end of a flight, temperatures are cooler.

It also has a much higher cycle life of 2000 to 80%, which should help battery packs last much longer and reduce concerns about keeping them fully charged for months. This aspect is actually one of the more important features of the new battery to me. We could make higher energy density packs, but the trade-offs are usually not worth it. This will get better with time, and while there are fewer and fewer trade-offs, there will always be trade-offs like this. To showcase this idea, I bought the best battery cells I could find, with cost not being a factor, which ended up being around $7200 just to build the battery pack. I plan on doing a 2-hour flight and making a video of it to show that it is possible (without the all-up weight being 100+ lbs). Of course, if the battery costs 7k to make, I don’t think that is the path for electric paramotor mass adoption, but it’s more of a showcase for those who think the only factor is flight time and are waiting for 1.5 or 2-hour flight times before they buy electric. It can be done, but most are not going to want to pay for that. What’s more important are factors like how comfortable and fun the flights are and, of course, the cost.

I’ll have more details in the next few weeks as the new 4.7 kWh packs get ready to ship, and I will be working on some new videos on the battery.

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super interesting and very cool you bought state of the art battery. I would love to see a 2 hour test of this innovative setup even though price is 7k battery

Is there an updated ETA? looking to travel to Utah and want maximum flight times. not sure I’ll be able to afford a 2 stroke for this trip.
also does any know if density altitude affects flight times?

What part of Utah are you looking to fly? I live in Northern Utah. Altitude and Density Altitude will both affect flight time. However, distance traveled per charge will be similar unless you fly in sink or lift.

I live in southern Utah, you’re welcome to borrow my two batteries if you want to get more flights in, just promise to give them back please and don’t leave them in a hot car.

Contrary to Paul, I believe you will get slightly longer distance on a battery at high altitude, though yes your flight time will be shorter.

Also, if you’re looking for maximum flight time, why not just thermal? You’ll be in Utah, there is vast terrain that supports predictable and strong thermals. My longest flight on the SP140 was 3 hours and I used just 25% of the charge. I launched and by the time I was at 1500ft I had picked up a thermal street. Flew with the motor off at altitudes from 8500-15,500ft. Landed with about 75% battery and 92v.

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So there is pleasure in midday powered flight! I was thinking of trying it. Although I might not like the bounces. I free fly too so know to actively control the wing. Imight try it towards fall when thermos are weak, glad to know someone is enjoing it, thanks!

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Would love to see that in price reduction in that range :rofl:
Are your Bat prices high due to limited production?
I know you guys are a business and you have to make a buck or go out of bussiness but I keep hearing how battery prices are coming down!
Is there a way make a minimum group prepurhase bulk order and save everyone in the group 20 - 30%.
Cheers

The sense I get from people looking to buy is they are looking for longer flight times rather than the price decreasing. So we chose to increase the capacity at no additional cost, which effectively reduces the cost per kWh. You can take the improvements in battery cells and either apply them to decreasing cost while maintaining the same performance, or keep the cost the same and increase the performance of the pack. You can also allocate some improvements to each, but it would only account for 30% total, and you must choose how to split it. We chose to put it all into performance. It’s kind of like how cell phones 20 years ago remain the same cost as they are now, but instead of the cost going down, people prefer big bright high-resolution displays, cameras, more computing power, etc.

Additionally, there are other components besides cells that make up around 50-55% of the pack’s cost. So while the cells do improve, there are also basic costs that remain the same or even increase, like labor, shipping, or materials, which are all affected by inflation. For example, when we designed the first pack for the SP140 three years ago, the cumulative inflation rate for all items was 19% over that period, and I think for electronics and battery cells, it was much higher, probably more than 25%. Even with these increases in cost, we didn’t raise the price by 25% while adding new features and more expensive components.

In short, prices are coming down, but it’s partly obscured by other factors such as people choosing improvements in features and performance over cost reduction, inflation, and cells being only a fraction of the total cost. So if you wanted the cost could decrease but the performance changes that are coming in the new battery pack would not happen but if there are enough people that just want lower cost pack and dont care about longer flight time, cycle life, weight, and upcoming Canbus connectivity then we would look at designing low-cost pack.

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[quote=“Pdwhite, post:14, topic:5686”]
The sense I get from people looking to buy is they are looking for longer flight times rather than the price decreasing. So we chose to increase the capacity at no additional cost, which effectively reduces the cost per kWh

Additionally, there are other components besides cells that make up around 50-55% of the pack’s costs[/quote]

Great points and I agree with all of them.
But but you did not address the any possible savings of bulk purchasing of just batteries. How many SP140 owners out there would buy one or 2 batteries. If you could, say get 20 packs ordered at one time, no risk to you guys with money up front, is there any savings? We all know there is savings in volume, the question is at what point do we see the sayings?

Cheers

We are already buying in larger quantities for this first batch we already purchased 100pcs of all components which is more then the orders outstanding. I would really like if someone made a battery pack we could buy off the shelf (especially if they think they can make it for less)for the SP140 but there is nothing at the moment.

So bulk pricing is already accounted for and we also did the same in the past. If it was just a one off or a dozen getting made then the cost would be like 5-10x.