He has some interesting ideas, but I am not sure what to think about
some of his creations.
He is getting in the air though, so that much speaks for itself.
I say no.
I wrote this on a different thread a while back on one of his other paramotors powered off of the same electronics I also compared it to the open ppg X4 to just show how much he is ripping you off:
I have been looking into building my own electric paramotor so I have researched every electric paramotor that I can find. That one is the Minne paramotor. These are my problems with it. the paramotor is running a small enough propeller that it takes away almost every efficiency benefit that you get from a single propeller(40 inch prop), it uses lawn mower batteries which are heavy and don’t hold much power, the unit weighs far more that your Open PPG units, the Open PPG has more thrust, his paramotor uses some of the cheapest components you can find, And he is charging you way to much for the unit.
I could show you how to build that exact thing he is selling for about $2500 and save you a lot of money.
In my opinion the Open PPG is a far better option as it weighs less, has more power, better flight time for the same weight, uses better components, it costs less, and offers no torque twist.
Here is a comparison to the Open PPG 4x:
WEIGHT (w/ out batteries):
Open PPG-21lb
Minne-32lb
MOTORS:
The Open PPG uses some fairly high end Mad M10 IPE motors which would cost any of us $267 a piece or $1068 for all four of them. The single large Minne motor can be bought out of china for $285. To me this is a clear statement about the quality difference between the two.
THRUST:
Minne roughly 75lb thrust
Open PPG 150-160lb thrust w/ 7s lipo
BATTERIES:
---------------------------Minne---------------Open PPG
Number/type ------3x lawn mower ------4x Bonka 7s
total cost------------- $700usd--------------$1000
total weight ---------16.5lb -----------------22lb
voltage ---------------80v --------------------51.8v
AH --------------------12ah -------------------44ah
Total PWR ----------960wh -----------------2,279wh
w/kg ------------------130w/kg ---------------231w/kg
*these are all rough numbers
As the batteries go, the Minne are heavy, low power, and cost a lot for the power they provide.
FLIGHT TIME/ TAKEOFF WEIGHT:
Minne- less than 15minutes - 49lb takeoff weight
Open PPG- roughly 25minutes - 43lb takeoff weight
COST:
Minne- ~$6000 w/ out batteries
Open PPG- $3200 w/ out batteries
Basically he is building a paramotor with $1500 worth of components and then ripping you off, the Open PPG is much better.
These are all just rough numbers. I probably got a little too carried away. Based on all this I think I would stick with an Open PPG as it costs less and it is better in almost every way.
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I kind of suspected as much, but I thought I should ask.
Maybe one of these kits would be a better option:
Two things. First they are almost half the price on eBay, second they only makes 3 hp. You aren’t going to fly with that.
Right you are. Thanks.
What about this one?
The da170 has been used before. If you really wanted decent thrust you would need to make a reduction drive for it. I would also love to see one made with proper expansion chambers for more power.
Sorry for all the dumb questions, There aren’t a lot of paramotor forums.
I was hoping someone here would know someone who bought one perhaps.
Bob,
Thx for taking the time to post this comparison.
It takes a lot of time and knowledge to compose a comparison like this.
John
Well, I’m glad someone could use it. I’m thinking about making a comparison between like the top 5 or so electric paramotors on the market, would anyone be interested in that?
Bob,
I believe it would be extremely beneficial to the PPG community and any newbies that are interested in an Electric PPG.
John
be honest about it! in your last comparison you used catalog data to push a company. that makes no sense.
I certainly could use it and I do very much appreciate what you have shared so far.
thank you very much.
Sorry it’s honestly not as much catalog data as it looks.
I tried to stay unbiased, but when the minne is powered off of the cheapest $260 80kv chinese motor you can find, cheapest “high power” esc on the market, lawn mower batteries that were never designed for the current needed for flight, and a wiring system designed for ac current home applications all while he is ripping you off as much as he is, I can’t bring myself to not favor the open ppg. The x4 is by no means the safest electric paramotor on the market, but research out the components, it is lightyears ahead of the minne.
It’s all about data and facts that should be correctly described when comparing. it doesn’t matter which motor manufacturer or price of the motor. it’s not about making a manufacturer bad or pushing it. in a comparison, the facts count.
if you write as an example of the x4 that it should have 150-160 lbs of thrust … how should that work? everyone who knows about electric drives and which thrust is possible with a 24/10, for example, will confirm that the abosulute short-term maximum is around 30 lbs for 1-2 minutes. if there is still a frame and pilot in front of the propellers, a maximum of 26-28 lbs is possible. . that’s under 120 lbs … build yourself a test bench or ask the hundreds of competitive pilots worldwide who operate aerobatic model airplanes with 22/10 to 24/12 propellers. everyone will tell you clearly that 30 lbs is the most realistic. if someone exaggerates a little because he is looking for customers, ok this is so common in some countries where it is not checked, for example. from specialist magazines or professional pilots with test stands. but someone who writes “comparisons” publicly in forums should write it if they are sure they have “real data”.
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Instead of complaining about someone else’s numbers, why don’t you provide your own? Is thrust the only sticking point for you? The point made by the comparison is just as valid at 80 pounds of thrust as it is at 150.
This is an OpenPPG forum, and anyone here might expect a little bit of bias toward that “company”. Bob brought useful information into this discussion. The best you can bring is a complaint that theoretical thrust is greater than actual thrust.
when someone compares products that can be bought, the real product data should be given. The one with the thrust has been shown by me as an example that it is very noticeable from the deviation. compared here are eppg that you can buy. i don’t sell eppg i build and fly eppg so my data is not important. For me it is just a matter of concern that everyone, whether company or diy, is treated fairly when compared to others. that can only be compared with real data.
Bratwurst defiantly has a point. I thrust tested one of the original prototype OpenPPG x4 paramotors a while back and only got 80lb thrust. Granted the motors are different than the current ones, I was only running 12s(not 14s), the batteries were old and sagging out, I am at a high elevation, and I was running the wrong props. But still, 40lb thrust for any period of time with a 22 inch prop is a bit insane. I build and fly racing drones so I know its not completely impossible, but I doubt the ability of an x4 to reach the specs listed
According to the manufacture the m10 motor, which the x4 uses, with the 180kv version,22x10 prop, and at 48v, you can get a peak of 15.5kg thrust or 34 pounds of thrust for a total of 136lb thrust. Chances are these numbers are stretched and were done in optimal conditions, so I would expect lower numbers than this with a full battery at 12s.
So basically on 12s don’t expect anything close to the rated thrust of the x4. You may be able to get closer with a 14s setup, but I have doubts that 160 pounds of thrust is reachable. Yet even with all this, I still believe that the openppg produces way more thrust than a Minne paramotor.
I would love to hear your input on this Paul.
Nobody has the budget to go out and buy all of the different options and test them in a laboratory environment … this is why we use published stats when comparing options. As always we take published stats with a grain of salt.