Inflight Thrust Angle Testing

Since I’ve owned the SP 140 I haven’t been able to get the estimated one hour flight time (22 flights) and I believe it’s due to the motor thrust angle is too low. My initial hang check was at 10° and I noticed that I would be forced to maintain max throttle after taking off. Even so, there was a noticeable dip in my take off climb out before finally gaining enough airspeed and lift to begin a decent climb out.

I quickly changed my static hang points to 15° which has improved my launch climb out effectively eliminating the dip in my accent. 10/12/22 New static hang check settings - sitting = 15°; foot stirrup= 9.4°; landing/hanging take off position = 7.4°. Through the last nine months of flying and some research I found that most gas powered PPG tend to have a lower thrust angle to the pilots back and our SP140 has a higher thrust level which actually forces the prop and cage forward and down.

I noticed my cruise kWh draw is much higher than a few others I’ve seen on video and also noticed that their cages are a lot further away from the paraglider lines than mine. On cruise, my paraglider lines are only about 6" away from touching my hoop and I’m pulling 6.1 kWh for level flight trims in. If you watch Paul’s video of his one hour typical flight uncut he’s only pulling 3.6 - 3.7 kWh while cruising and his hoop is at least 12-15" from his lines.

Here’s my solution to finding out what the inflight Thrust Angle is by attaching an RC control surface throw meter calibrated to the battery top surface which is exactly the same angle as the motor bell housing. The RC angle meter is Bluetooth connected to my phone and through the app I’ll be able to see the angle indicated during flight. Planning a couple of test flights this weekend, fingers crossed the app works out.

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First inflight thrust angle test completed this morning, winds were 3-5 mph a little gusty at times. The wing I’m flying is a 2018 Ozone Spyder 28m, pilot weight is 213# flight ready and LZ is 2800’ MSL. I zeroed the gyro on the stand using my phone bubble app with an error of +/- 0.30 degrees, so not scientific. Anyways, the “trims in” cruise was 11 degrees with 6.1 kWh draw and the max throttle in chill mode was 14-15 degrees at 15 kWh draw. The cage hoop during cruise is about 8-10" from my brake lines and the hoop appears to be pretty perpendicular to the horizon while cruising and making a flat and level turns.

I consumed 1.8 kWh of battery for an 18:30 flight according to the OSD, ending voltage of 92v @62% battery remaining. All of my flights so have have averaged 30 minutes using 3.4 kWh of battery. I’ll get another hang point measurement tomorrow morning using the RC throw meter and adjust +2-3 degrees with the end goal being 14-15 degrees for cruise and 17 degrees for max throttle in chill mode.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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I am interested in hearing what you find. Good work.

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Interesting.
Here is my draw fully trimmed in at nil wind.
I am 165lbs and have a light Ozone Spyder3 26m
My thrust is not forward and down by looks of it during flight.

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Uau! Only 3,2kw for level flight, that’s nice.

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That’s pretty freaking awesome if you ask me, I’m almost double that. :frowning: I’m curious what’s your MSL where you are flying?

I am at 0 MSL
ChatGPT:
“At 2800 MSL, the air density is around 0.8966 kg/m³ compared to the standard air density of 1.225 kg/m³ at sea level (0 MSL). Consequently, the lift at 2800 MSL would be reduced by approximately 26.8% (1 - 0.8966/1.225).”

Count in that you have a bigger drag in your wing and heavier pilot.

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Thanks for the info. Are you getting one hour flight times? I’m thinking about getting a new wing either the Spyder 3 or Roadster 3 since I live in the desert. I’m at 135 kg. AUW so trying to decide if I should go with the 26 or 28m again given my MSL.

Well, not much of an improvement in flight time (30 seconds :laughing:)after adjusting the hang point to 17°. The only positive thing is my hoop is a little bit further away from my brake lines and the seating position is a little bit more comfortable. The cruise thrust angle is now 13.5-14° pulling 5.8 kWh and the full throttle angle is 16.5-17° with trims in and nil wind.

I guess I’ll have to live with the 30 minutes of flight time until I can either get a new wing or go to the beach and fly.

Happy flying!
Today’s results!

Prior flight to adjustment

I usually get 45 minutes. 50 is the best I can do due to one cell group is bad in my pack. So when bad group is at 3V others are 3,3V. If I had a healthy pack I would prolly get 55-60 minutes at best conditions during nil wind(as you tend to use more throttle to get somewhere during windy days).

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The Spyder is a fast wing. The faster you fly the faster you will drain your battery. I use an intermediate classic paragliding wing. My flight time is around 45 minutes max. The Spyder or Roadster drains my battery faster but the distance covered is similar although slightly less. So, do you want to be in the sky longer or get to your destination quicker?

In a recent flight I flew 17 miles in 42 minutes. I weigh 200 lbs. Do you know what distance you are getting?

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Why are you landing at 83 volts. Mine won’t cut till it gets below 76 volts. Have you ever flown till it cuts to get comfortable and familiar with the limits of the system?

I’m covering 13 miles on an average 30 minute flight, my inflight voltage loaded at 6 kwh for level flight is 79v and OSD is in the red at 10% battery level. The recovery resting voltage is 83v on the OSD which is actually 85v due to the OSD error. I’m flying the Spyder with the trims in and my average speed is 23 mph, how does that compare to your PG wing’s average speed?

I haven’t flown it to the cut off yet, thinking more along the lines of not wanting to damage the battery and landing out. I’m flying in chill mode and at 10% battery I can only pull 10 kWh for max throttle climb outs (1 m/s) which doesn’t sit well with me when thinking " what if I need to climb and there’s not enough power?".

I’m looking at just staying in the air longer, I’m not looking to cover any ground since I’m more of an LZ flier. The storage charge only take 15 minutes to achieve 86V, how long does it take you to storage charge your battery that has been run down to 76V?

Oh yeah, I tried my PG wing and it oscillates when used with the PPG at 136kg… I’m trying to get down to 126kg and give the PG wing another go.

Your very first sentence in this thread states that you are unable to get one hour flights and yet you are landing before the battery is depleted. I agree you won’t get an hour but if you always land after 30 minutes you will never get more than a 30 minute flight. :joy:

The battery cuts to protect it from over discharging. So if you truly want to see how long you can fly then fly until it cuts. Obviously over the LZ with enough altitude to setup for a good landing. That will give you a better feel of how far you can push it in the future. It’s good to know.

I fly around 24 mph with my classic wing.

I don’t storage charge my battery cause I fly quite often. The main reason to storage charge is in case it self drains below them minimum voltage. If you land with 83 volts there’s really no point in charging to 86 volts. It’s more important to not store it full.

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I’ll have to give it a try, flying to the low voltage cutoff next time out that is. Plus, I will get a chance in August to test fly a Spyder 3 from Aviator PPG for a week and see if a newer version of the Spyder is actually worth getting.

As far as the battery storage goes, it doesn’t hurt to charge it up to the 86v in case I don’t fly for a couple of weeks. Peace of mind is all.

Once I drop another 15# I’ll give my PG wing another try and see if the oscillating goes away and see if it’s more efficient. I just hate changing the PG wing in and out of my PG harness is all.

Happy flying!

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I flew 42 min the other day, buzzing a friend acreage from ours, travelling 27km. I didn’t fly too conservatively and had about 15% on throttle when landed. Over 20% when at idle. Using Nova ion 4 paraglider wing. I weight about 175lbs.

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I have one of the 4 KWH batteries so I could fly slightly longer than you. I landed after 32 minutes of flying yesterday because the wind was starting to pick up. With voltage sag under power I was at 84 volts and the recovery voltage was 86.7 volts. So a little bit higher than what you get after 30 minutes. At this voltage I know I still have 10 to 13 minutes of flight time left.

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Paul, I have a Spyder26, Spyder3 24 and an Independence Grasshopper 26. I am finding myself reaching for the Grasshopper “single skin” more and more. It is just so easy, and I get nice flight times out of my smaller batteries. On 8 to 10mph days I will fly my Ozone wings…depending on conditions.
I’m 195#. Overall, I am pleased with the flight times of my 6P & 7P batteries. I’m usually flying Chill mode and just cruising too…my favorite activity in the air.:+1::rofl:
Bill

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I got my second flight in this morning with the newly adjusted thrust angle and concentrated on flying as smooth as possible. I only climbed up to 500’ on take off so I could safely pull in the trims. I was able to push the time up to 37 minutes of flight time and 35 minutes of motor on time using 3.4 kWh. The upper levels were bumpy so I stayed down low and decided to land once I hit 77.9v underload cruising. The winds were light at 2 mph and shifting so I didn’t push the battery to cutoff voltage.

I have a good baseline for comparison once the loaner Spyder 3 arrives in August.

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Are you launching trims out? How far out? If I remember right, the manual recommends trims in when low to the ground. A little bit of trims out could help the wing come up on launch but you can safely fly that wing trims in the whole flight to maximize both safety and flight time.

As for motor time, when you climb fast and high you use more power but then have a longer glide back down. That will only consume a little bit more battery than a level flight under constant power for the same flight duration. Therefore, your glide down can be considered part of the flight time since you had to use more battery to gain that altitude.

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