How to choose a good used wing?

So far, I’ve wasted money on two old wings that I can’t even kite properly.

Yeah, I know. Some guys have to learn the hard way. *_^

I was just wondering if someone could give me some advice on what to look for when

choosing a wing. I know newer is better, but am not sure exactly what makes a design better.

If I had the money, I’d go for new APCO hybrid, but I don’t.

I’ve seen some dudek wings for sale, but I am clueless as to what size I should be looking at.

The only training I could do will be next spring now, and 9 hours away (provided the weather cooperates and

I can get time off work and I can scratch enough money together to pay for it all)

Is a Pluto worth looking at? How about sky paragliders or dominator?

I am 102 kg soaking wet, but I found that I can get that down if I do enough ground handling.

So, sorry for the rambling, incoherent post, but I hope someone could help me understand wings a bit

more.

The first wing I had was an AXIS stardust 28m2 - It was HUGE! I finally did get it in the air but I needed so much wind to do it that it was dangerous. There was no hope of nil wind kiting.

Then I got an EDEL (I think it was called a rainbow) small size, much easier to handle but still could not
kite it worth a hoot. Someone on here told me it’s because these older wings are just hard to handle and
I should be looking at more modern designs. So that is the reason for my post. I am looking for some
insight on what makes a wing modern, what designs are good for a beginner etc.

Thanks in advance

Well the first thing I would be asking for is
a) porosity test - when done and result
b) last trimmed

Cheers

I had two weeks of training with a completed successful practical and theoretical exam before I even thought about buying a wing.
I then bought one, and two months later sold it again and bought a new one because I also wanted it to be certified for PPG (which my original wing wasn’t)

So if you have not had one single lesson, go learn first!

You’ll learn what to look for - then hang around at popular flying sites (if you do freeflying) and then see what brands and wings other people use, what popular and useful wings are.

I am based in Germany, which may be one reason why I haven’t even heard about most of the wings you mentioned, but it may also be, because these are unknown brands (note: unknown does not mean that they are not good!).

Nova from Austria is a brand that makes wings that can be used for both, freeflying and PPG
Same for Dudek from Poland, BGD (Bruce Goldsmith Design - no clue where he’s based) and Ozone from France - these are all popular brands, but there are tons more!

I’ve owned two Axis Power Pluto wings. They about the easiest wings to inflate in no-wind conditions I’ve ever tried. Very stable in flight, too. Macpara makes great wings that inflate easily, too. Ozone’s Atom is also a nice starter wing. Find a used wing with low hours where you are at the top of the placard weight range. I think Performance and turning capabilities are much less important for beginner wings. It doesn’t matter how good a wing turns, does acro or how great the Glide ratio is if you can’t get off the ground with it. I’d recommend getting a wing that has proven easy launch characteristics because as a beginner the no-wind launch is the most difficult aspect to master. Yet, flying on no-wind/low wind days are the best air, and you can go any direction without fighting a headwind. Best of luck to you with your learning to ppg.

Thank you for your replies.

Yes, training is paramount. I do intend to do that, once I can afford it.

There are a lot of used wings for sale, most are about half the price of new and are tested
with certs to prove it. Others are very cheap and are probably not safe for flying.

I guess I’ll have to wait until I can afford training and then go from there.

Anyway, thank you for your thoughts.

I fly nova ion 4 wing. It’s a really good paraglider wing, safe and nimble, also works for Paramotor’s which I’m going to use on the openppg. The wing is also made in Austria so it’s close for you in case you need repairs done or new lines, or trim tuning.

I use this wing for ridge soaring, towing up on prairies behind dynamic winch, mountain flying, and now paramotoring. I have flown gradient wings, do not like them over the nova wings. But wings are very much personal preference. If you go to a flight school they should have several different wings especially in Germany for you to try to see which ones you like or don’t like.

Thank you everyone for your replies. The one school which is 10 hours away from me uses BGD wings

and the next school which is 9 hours away uses Dudek wings.

BGD has some interesting information on their website, I will do some studying.

Foot flyer has some basic information as well.

I’ve heard good things about ITV boxer 2 as well.

Some other names I’ve come across: Silex, Falial, Gin, Koyot, Galaxy, Nirvana - desire (not sure who makes it),
Advance, Air Design, and others.

If you are a beginner and you bought a used old Edel Rainbow, the guy who sold it to you is a @4*&!#@@. If it is the glider I am thinking of, it is an early 90’s competition PG wing, and though state of the art at the time, I saw pilots tossing their reserve parachute under it. If this is the wing, I will suggest you to cut the lines off where the tabs connect the lines to the ripstop, keep them to use around the house, always useful to have, and keep the wing as a car cover. There are many good PG/PPG glider around such as this one (yesterday’s lesson). About one third of my students go for PG only and the rest for both activities).
For your weight, the ITV Boxer2 size L if you want to PG only ( It is certified PG and PPG ), and L or XL if you only want to do PPG and fly with a big gas engine such at the Vittorai Moster Plus 185 + gas + reserve parachute size L, clothing, and miscellaneous or perhaps. Generally, to find your PG glider size, you add 15kg / 33lbs to your naked weight up to 185lbs, and 20kg/44lbs over that. Add to it the motor with harness/fuel/reserve parachute/helmet/radio/clothing, and whatever you will carry onboard with you
This pilot weighs 200/205lbs in his birthday suit and wants to do both PG and PPG. He is on the low end of the size large and will be about 2/3 to 3/4 up with a motor, fuel, rescue, and misc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sBZR0G8f0k
As for the harness, Apco, Dudek are fine. I have flown them. I push the SUPAIR “Evo PPG” size L. There will be slight modifications to make but it is a very comfortable model which has a pocket underneath for storage or an additional butt medium density foam protector, which is preferable in my view. You can have a front mounted reserve parachute instead, and use the top of the Cockpit/Reserve to place your various electronics on. Many PPG pilots mess up their landings/takeoffs due to poor timing when flaring (too early or too late), or slip on wet grass (early morning or Summer late evening flight takeoffs in 4 season areas of the world). I have seen it many times.


http://www.supair.com/en/produit/paramoteur-evo/ http://www.supair.com/en/produit/paramoteur-evo/
I have been teaching PG since the early 90’s and represented just about all the main brands on the market to finally come to the conclusion years ago that there was no point in saying one brand is better than the other - everyone is a critic. Less is more! I sold Nova, Ozone, Edel, Trekking, Aile-de K, ITV, Niviuk, Mac, Gin, Advance, SOL, SUPAIR, Nervures and a few others. I decided to stick to ITV in the last few years because they work just fine for my students in training and coming out of school to progress with. We tow, ridge soar, do thermal flying in the NY. Catskills and PPG on the Long Island shores with them,… no problem, the gliders can handle it all. Choosing a certified wing among the known brands (recommended) boils down to the pretty graphics and colors :wink: I hope that helped.

Thank you for the well informed response. I will have to take some time and study all the information you gave.

About the edel wing, I bought it off of eBay for a couple hundred bucks just to practice kiting. I knew it would be no good for flying, but it turned out to be not much good for kiting practice either
The guy who sold it told me it was only good for ground handling, but the thing is it needs so much wind to be able to keep it in the air that it is dangerous. So that’s no good.
I’ll just have to save my pennies until I can afford to do it properly.

Thanks for your help.

By the way, does anyone know what happened to the para2000 website? It doesn’t work here anymore, is it shut down?

I guess para2000 is no more😭

But there is a new site called gliderbase.com
Hope this helps someone, especially me.:grin:

Yep the “cheapest” form of flying but not cheap!
Do they provide equipment where you are going for training? Maybe you dont need a wing till after training if they have one. And you and drag there training wing all over the ground instead of your new one!!! I think anyone worth a shit out there training should have at least some training wings or dont go to them, IMHO.

9 hrs is a long way to go for training and the weather may not cooperate – I took 10 days off and still did not get in the air the 1st year – many factors, one of them me, but weather was one of them.

You are looking a an EN-A wing to start - though I am thinking that APCO Hybrid will be a good starter wing even though it is rated EN-B.

I got the MacPara Muse 4 powered - was like 3200 up here in Canada when I got it. I like it but kinda wishing I had went with Ozone mojo power back then.

Best wishes to you and your training.
Cheers

They do indeed provide equipment as part of the training.

The one place now offers a very inexpensive introductory course, which is about all I can afford right now.

It won’t give me much more than a taste, but at least that’s something.

Thats great – do they put that towards the main course if you sign up ?

I believe so, I’ll have to check and make sure tho.

Your lines may be out of trim and that makes kiting difficult. If you can get the glider over your head but cannot keep it there then you can try to shorten the A-lines by looping them a few times in the mallions. Remark: do not try to fly with this modification.

Interesting idea, I’ll have to try that.

But It won’t be until spring.

I do not have much to add about the wing that has not been said but I do have a small comment on the budget. Make sure you have enough cash on hand after training to buy decent gear. Buying a cheap kiting wing and finding out the hard way that it is not kite worthy is a bummer but buying a cheap paramotor and finding out it is not airworthy would be tragic. Be safe and this sport will be life changing. Being unsafe and this sport is life status changing.

Thank you.

I will keep that in mind as there is quite a bit of cheap, used stuff for sale.

That doesn’t mean it’s unsafe, but at this point I am in no position to judge.

Training is first and foremost, then better decisions can be made.

Thanks everyone for your input.