Comparing some modern E-PPG's

This is just a comparison of some modern paramotors to cover the technology involved and compare some specs. Many of the specifications that I will give are by the manufacture and many are calculated based on clues that have been found from various sources so they may not be compleatly accurate, but they should all be close. I am also not listing motor power because every company could rate the exact same motor differently. I am also not posting weight because it is very difficult to find an accurate weight for many of these units. For this reason I will not do a head to head comparison, but cover each paramotor separately. I don’t have a ton of time right now so the paramotors I will cover for now are the Paracel, Exomo, open ppg Sp140. I hope to add more later.

Things to take into account before we continue. The battery KW and amp rating is a theoretical rating for if the battery is completely discharged to 2.5v per cell at a very low current. Also note that not all cells are created equal. For example, we have battery A and B. battery A is built with high capacity cells and holds 4 kw power. battery B has higher current cells but only holds 3.8 kw power. But when we discharge both battery packs at a constant 8a per cell Battery A may only give 3.2 kw and battery B may give 3.4kw. This was probably a really bad example but I hope you get the point.

PARACEL(75A):
Battery energy(kw)----------3.9
Battery AH --------------------75
voltage------------------------51.8
Battery configuration----14s25p
Cell type---------------------18650
Cell used-------LG hg2(older models), Sam 30Q(up until a few months ago), ?(current)
Rated flight time-----------70 minutes
kwh needed to fly------------3.34
Cost--------------------------?

Thoughts: The paracel has a pretty good battery capacity, but 70 minutes of flight really isn’t realistic for only 3.9 kw of battery capacity. Overall is has a great build quality with great components and it should last a long time.

EXOMO(78ah)
Battery energy(kw)----------4.3
Battery AH --------------------78
voltage------------------------55.5
Battery configuration----15s26p
Cell type---------------------18650
Cell used-----------------------?
Rated flight time-----------60 minutes
kwh needed to fly----------4.3
Cost--------------------------$14,000

I find it very interesting that Exomo uses very similar components to paracel yet they rate the exomo as needing one extra Kwh to maintain level flight. To me this indicates one of two things. The first thing it could indicate is that they are a much more honest company and they are trying to report realistic numbers for their flight time. The second thing it could indicate is that they cut back on the amount of battery capacity available to the user to help enhance the battery life span which could also explain their excellent 4 year battery warranty.

OpenPPG SP140
Battery energy(kw)----------4
Battery AH --------------------45
voltage------------------------88.8
Battery configuration----24s9p?
Cell type---------------------21700
Cell used-----------------------???
Rated flight time-----------60 minutes
kwh needed to fly------------4
Cost--------------------------$7000

There has been a lot of mystery that has surrounded the sp140 and there still is a lot. The current biggest one is surrounding the battery pack. based on the current given specs of the sp140 we know that the 4 kw pack weighs 38 pounds and the 2.2kw pack weighs 22 pounds. So if we run the math, we get the 4kw battery pack as having 33 pounds of cells. We can then run the math and based on the average 21700 cell weighing about 70g and the unit being a 24s system we get that the sp140 most likely has 9 cells in parallel or a 24s9p setup. Here is where the problems come. To get the 4kw rating needed out of 216 cells they would need to be rated at 5000mah. Now 21700 cells of this capacity exist, but none of them have even close to the 25+ amp rating that would be needed to support the M50 motor that is used. I am really curious on what Paul has to say about this but I am sort of concerned about this. Other than the battery, The sp140 was built to provide the best bang for your buck. It wont last as long as an exomo or provide the flight time, But overall it should be a pretty good paramotor.

if you compare prices … please write about it as some eppg are only allowed in the usa. Also write about whether the manufacturer has a product liability, also write about the countries in which you can register it. or you make a clear distinction: eppg usa and eppg europe and the rest of the world. that is a huge difference. it should be honest.

Why wont it last as long lol, any reasoning? What part will break faster or whatever?

And then for the battery size i have gone over this before but the 4kwh pack is 24s11p not 24s9p and the 2kwh pack it 24s6p and they are both using 21700 cells with 35a rating.

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I primarily believe the motor wont last quite as long. I have used motors made by Mad and they just aren’t up to the quality standards of companies like exomo. Honestly by the time the motor will break down the paramotor will likely be 10+ years out dated, but I still think it wont last quite as long as an exomo or paracel, but once again I could be wrong.

Sorry I missed it, but this now makes me question your weight specs listed on your website. Your website says that your unit is 31lb without a battery and up to 69lb which I would assume would be with the 4kw battery. This means that the battery should weigh 38lb, but a 24s11p 21700 battery at 67grams per cell would weigh 39lb without the case or BMS. Are your weight figures off?

Sorry to butt in, but I was wondering if you have checked out the work of a fellow by the name of Thomas Brandstetter. He’s got lots of videos on YouTube and his facebook page says he custom builds paramotors. Very nice stuff.

He knows a lot more than i do and he is right here on this forum. Maybe he would tell you more.

Hello thankfull, since I have been using eppg intensively as a hobby for almost 10 years, I can tell you that there are around 30 different systems worldwide that all fly successfully. then about 50 -100 different ones that are more than decoration in the garages because rc material was built. you can use it to fly down a mountain or a little at a low altitude with a lot of noise, for example. on the coast. there are still about 100 active pilots who fly with professional eppg. one can say for about 5 years that eppg has been fully developed. partially high-performance optimized for about 3 years. eppg has been flown since 2006. i have pictures of currently 43 completely different eppg on my hard drive. at some point i will make the collection public. I am currently restoring a yunecc e-pac from 2009 in my hobby workshop. basically i think one can compare. but only if it is divided into categories. because a diy project and comparing it commercially is useless. the diy will always be the hero because he has to pay 70% less costs than a commercial one. therefore it would be unfair. i have been building my own small craft company for 15 years. therefore i know everything with taxes, product liability etc very well. I also worked on projects for commercial eppg as a developer that gave me a very good insight into laws and rules that diy people can never see or know.

OK, I thought it was you, but I didn’t want to say anything because you might prefer to remain anonymous.

Delete this post as well, just to be safe.
Thanks

He is using fairly low end chinese components, a small diameter prop (not as efficient), and you don’t get the added safety of li-ion batteries with his design. The quality is better than something like a minne, but I would put it slightly lower in reliability and longevity than a well built openppg x4 and nowhere close to a top of the line e-ppg like exomo or paracel. If you are still interested I may have more time later to dig a little more into it.

I think it is about time that everyone who wants to make comparisons and advertises companies gives their real name. and how long he has been flying eppg or ppg. one often has the impression that beginners write here and think to teach others without ever having flown themselves. can that be?

Well if that means me, then I am a total beginner.

If you want me to delete my last post, OK.

My real name: W. Herron from Canada.
Sorry if I offended anyone.

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Assuming his current V3 units are made the same way that his V3 unit from two months ago was made the German motor is complete BS. This is the exact motor here that in bulk can be bought for less than $500 per piece(in bulk) out of china.

https://m.alibaba.com/product/60717516947/35KW-Brushless-motor-15470-for-electric.html.

Also 65kg or 145 pounds really isn’t that much thrust. The most popular vittorazi 185 will get about 165lb thrust and many of the modern electric paramotors can match or get close to that.

The most popular vittorazi 185 will get about 175lb thrust and many of the modern electric paramotors can match or get close to that
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example? footlaunch / video? never seen this in the web.

So I am looking on that link you provided and if I am reading it right,
I would have to buy 2 of those motors (minimum purchase) is that right?

If I scroll down, it shows a motor and the (control box unit? thingy) together as a set.
Would that qualify as 2 pieces?
Sorry if my stupid questions offend.

Hit the wrong key. Meant to type 165lb (75kg) thrust for the vittorazi.

Exomo claims that there unit will make 70kg thrust

http://www.exomo.com/en/electric-paramotor/#:~:text=Equipped%20with%20a%2015Kw%20engine,you%20enjoy%20an%20incomparable%20silence.

This second party company that tested the paracell eppg and says it produces 60kg thrust.

https://www.simplify-ppg.com/en-gb/paramotor-xe

Open ppg claims the x4 will make 72kg thrust.

The sp140 is claimed to make 79kg thrust.

the skywalker paramotor is rated at 72kg thrust.

(I tried to add links for everything, but it will only let me do two per post.)

There are more eppg’s out there, but the average claimed thrust out of all of these paramotors I have listed is 70.6 kg which is close to a vittorazi’s rated 75kg thrust. I know that many (if not most) of these companies will have exaggerated the thrust, but It gives you a rough idea of what is common. 65kg thrust really isn’t mind blowing.

Yes the frame weight is a little high and the 4kw battery was measured using the old 18650 based battery.

maybe sometime someone dares to show the real data in the video during the flight. then we see the truth. technically it is very easy to solve. it takes a few minutes to render the video.

Giving it full throttle for a few seconds on the test bench is worthless. that says absolutely nothing. what counts is not the short-term performance of a system, but the practical performance should be specified.